![]() ![]() That's one that I don't see a mathematical case against. But if you're using the Red Hand for single target DPS, it is in my opinion without question unmatched, particularly when built for it. If you're focusing on AoE damage, I don't think the Red Hand could hold a candle to a well built Frostseeker build. It depends on what you're using the weapon to accomplish, right? If you're using the Red Hand to top off your focus bar, then clearly weapons that hit more than one target are going to be superior. I get the distinction you're drawing and it's a fair point but I think framing the question as overall build damage, rather than as only weapon damage specifically, gives the better analysis. ![]() That said, you make a fair point, but isn't "overall damage done by the build as a whole" a much more important question than " weapon damage done" specifically? Weapons are just part of a build - if the most powerful builds don't use a supposedly "overpowered" weapon, then it probably isn't actually overpowered. The Aamina's Legacy bow posts do specifically address the "more weapon DPS" though. I do agree that it is obvious that a Cipher using a weapon with multi-hit capability should hit Ascended significantly faster than one using the Red Hand, but that doesn't address the question. I feel like the threads you cited don't address the actual damage of the Red Hand, but rather on the damage an Ascended Cipher is able to do. That was due to reaching Ascended status more slowly than other classes. They showed that an Ascendent Cipher that used the Red Hand - at max level - to reach Ascended state generated lower damage overall than other classes. Separately, I looked at those threads, and that's not what they showed at all. But that's the only nerf it really needs. I'll agree that the persistent Red Hand bonus should vanish from a character if the weapon is placed into inventory or equipped by a different character. Double Tap also impacts higher level undead, which appears to me to be a bug, but I can't say for certain. ![]() When I play with the Red Hand, I have a total attack cycle of 4m range, which is super annoying. Late game though it's deprecated because the damage boost it gives is insufficient to top out your focus bar on an alpha strike - you need AoE or fly-through multitarget to do that. I like it on low to mid (8-15) level ciphers before you manage to collect Eccea's and the Kitchen Stove and other guns that do non-piercing damage, because it's easy to carry an arquebus in one weapon set and a quarterstaff in the other and have two solid "ranged" damage type options. It's not so much overpowered as it is convenient. Presuming you don't exploit the fact that you can swap the Red Hand around the whole party to give everyone the buff, and just use it "normally" on one character, then the Red Hand is a second-tier ranged weapon at best, but makes up for it in ease of use - it doesn't require a complex build or positioning micromanagement, and it's got very high Pen so you don't have to think about that part of the game much either. Other players have run tests and showed that builds using the Kitchen Stove and other non-red-hand weapons can dramatically outperform Red Hand builds and posted the data in these threads: Kaylon explained how the Aamina's Legacy bow gives superior DPS to the Red Hand here: I have played with both weapons and its pretty clear red hand is far better If you want to make comments like that you have to back them up. ![]()
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